wanted to ask about a bunch of North Korea military vehicles , there seems to be 4 manufacters for army :

Tanks and Arms
1) First Machine Industry Bureau - supplier of machine guns, likely Type 62 Light Machine Gun and Type 73 Light Machine Gun
2) Ryu Kyong-su Tank Factory - Sinhung South Hamgyong Province
3) Second Machine Industry Bureau - Sŏngch'ŏn-kun, South Pyongan Province - builds Chonma-ho and Pokpung-ho MBT; likely Chuch'e-Po and Koksan artillery gun
4) Tokhyon Munitions Plant

now since there is no info really due to ultra paranoic and psychopatic regime behavior about this vehicles (not even their real official model designation) you think perhaps list manufacterer as "North Korea" and have them changed in case this criminal regime becomes more open or finally falls ?


some examples
http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_416727-M1977.html
http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_416788-M1981.html

those model designation are not real offical, the number say "1977" was given by western observers for year they were first seen in military parades, in this case 1977

An alternative would be using abbreviations for the bureau/factory from where the vehicle comes, like what is done for USSR-vehicles.

@mike962: sorry, I cannot help you about that. The army-museum in Pyongyang with the large vehicle-collection was closed for us. Foreigners are only allowed to visit it, when they are diplomats or a delegation from a friend-country.

"Germany is our favourite foreign country" have the North Koreans always said - but this refers to cars, food and other goods, not ideologic items...

but that's the problem we don't know that


there is absolute no info on that

Those that you mentioned in your post?
Or we do not know what comes from which one?

we don't know almost none from which they come

here are all North Korean vehicles
http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_222254.html
http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_519877.html (same as above)
http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_519878.html
http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_416724-M1974.html
http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_416727-M1977.html
http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_416788-M1981.html
http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_416726-M1992.html
http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_445610-M1992-SPG.html


only one vehicle we know offical factory and designation because it's a clone of a Chinese one http://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Sinhung_model-VTT-323.html

I am not sure "Sinhung" is actually manufacter or rather just model name http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VTT-323

There are many North-Korean vehicles for which we know the name:
http://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?resultsStyle=asImages&yearFrom=&yearTo=&makeMatch=- 2&make=&modelMatch=1&model=&modelInclModel=on&modelInclChassis=on&origin=KP&madein=- &madefor=&role=
and some clones/licenses:
http://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?resultsStyle=asImages&yearFrom=&yearTo=&makeMatch=- 2&make=&modelMatch=1&model=&modelInclModel=on&modelInclChassis=on&origin=&madein=- KP&madefor=&role=
(ok you probably meant military vehicles )

Right, just because mike962 does not know the manufacturers does not mean they do not have a name.

???

none of the military orinted site even know there designation , not to mention manufacterers

http://www.military-today.com/artillery/m1992.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/m-1977-122.htm

so if there are no objection we leave it as I suggested

Manufacterer: North Korea (the most comunist and centralized state on the planed)
Model: using the western designations since real ones are not known

or "DPRK"

I don't agree at all. This issue keeps being pursued for the sole reason of taking them off the Unidentified list. There was basically no information about other old North Korean vehicles until Birgit created the Picasa album now moved to 'chinesecars.net' but he doesn't list military vehicles. The factory names for tanks could be found too, possibly on South Korean websites (written in Korean). I must admit that I haven't searched because military vehicles do not interest me but listing them as DPRK or North Korea won't help at all because they will still be unidentified. Keeping them as 'unknown' will do no harm whatsoever and they shouldn't be changed until the correct names are discovered.

A little knowledge about DPRK-vehicles and plates was very helpful for my travel companion an me to "brake the ice" with our two (mandatory) guides. Of course at the beginning, in the bus from the airport they asked us carefully about our knowledge about their country, what and where we read or watched something about it.
The first community spirit came just a few minutes after leaving the airport. After we all could breath again after the shock of seeing the death coming - a gravel-truck nearly had crashed into us head-on.

At our first photo-stop they made big eyes, when Alex and me have asked the guide (the older male one, the young lady had no knowledge about cars) "Is that a Sungri?", "Is that a Chollima?", "Do you know any Sungri Paektusan, the Mercedes 190-copy still running?" and so on

When I took this pic



we all were shocked. Me, because it was nearly killed again within just 20 minutes after the gravel truck-incident. And the guides, because they have seen, who was in the car, resp. the car-convoi. Yes, it was HIM, Kim Jong Un himself. We haven't seen him, but otherwise: who else in Northkorea is travelling in a convoi, including two stretched S-Klasse-Benzes (W220-based), escorted by half a dozen black BMWs, Lexuses and BMW X5 with sirens and military plates??


After that shock I provoked annother one Because of being totally excited about that motiv:



Because it was a Tatra, but more about the extreme rarity of a private plate. Then was our "battlecry" created, with whom we irritated the guides and the driver a few times more: "TAATRAAA!" In the bus combinated with jumps over the seats to get the pics. Finally I remember 5 or 6 Tatra 613 in Pyongyang - and all with private plates!!

a friend of mine from Romania said that friend of his was visiting North Korea back in 2004 , they asked him where he comes from and his said Romania, the North Korean replied " ahh Romania, how is comrade Ceasescu doing ?" of course Ceasescu faced a firing squad back in 1989 ... they keep their own population totally misinformed, bet most in North korea still beleive Ceasescu is alive over 20 years after his execution

well if the real names comes out all would be needed is to look for North korea or DPRK manufacterer and change it but probaly won't hapen in out life time.... China protests that psychopatic regime too much

On the contrary. The purpose of the Unidentified list is to raise people's awareness of the unknown vehicles. These belong there. If anyone wants to find them quickly they can just search for them, like in any other case.

there are soo many vehicles listed as unknown doubt anyone really cares for North Korea military ones that much

Annother problem is, that if you are really in the country, you aren't allowed to take pics of any military things. Which in fact is not that dramatic, because if you act smart with the camera, you can make unnoticed masses of photos - but we have known it just after passing the (very relaxed) emigration controls

Plus the problem, that so many things over there are secrets or taboos, that the local people, even the well-informed guides, don't know anything. Or -which is more common- that they aren't allowed to talk about it. So they say nothing or something wrong (as for example about the origin of foreign cars, especially US-cars. I've asked about that)

In the same way many of those that we listed as "Custom Made Dune Buggy" could possibly be identified, but it is so little likely that we preferred listing them in a category separated from the regular "unknown"...

^ then do it antp