Tank and "Made for Movie" corrections

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Tank and "Made for Movie" corrections

Published 19/10/2024 @ 01:53:21, By Harold B

That's fine I understand. In the meantime, here's more work for you :grin:

Latest Edition: 24/10/2024 @ 03:29:59

Tank and "Made for Movie" corrections

Published 19/10/2024 @ 16:22:08, By Harold B

"KAWEST" shouldn't be in quotes, it's a version acronym not a name.
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_1411998-Cadillac-M109--KAWEST--1995.html

M19 MGMC (The correct full designation is Multiple Gun Motor Carriage)
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_689249-Cadillac-M19-Gun-Motor-Carriage-1944.html

This M24 is missing the name Chaffee, which the rest have.
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_1902700-Cadillac-M24-1944.html

Name update: Cadillac M24 Chaffee as MAN Pz.Kpfw.V Panther
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_1031367-Cadillac-M24-Chaffee.html
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_9852-Cadillac-M24-Chaffee-1944.html
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_50423-Cadillac-M24-Chaffee-1944.html
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_767471-Cadillac-M24-Chaffee-1944.html

Name update: Cadillac M24 Chaffee as GAZ SU-76M
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_1075315-Cadillac-M24-Chaffee.html

Name update: Cadillac M24 Chaffee as Cadillac M41 Walker Bulldog
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_85020-Cadillac-M24-Chaffee-1944.html

Name update: remove "light tank" as additional info, to be consistent with the rest
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_27611-Cadillac-M24-Chaffee-1944.html

The M24s which saw service with the Japanese military were not made for Japan. They were normal American army production vehicles which were given to Japan, therefore these two should not have the "made for Japan" tag. If that is only there to signify they are in Japanese service, then it is missing on many other M24s which clearly have Japanese markings.
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_837444-Cadillac-M24-Chaffee-1944.html
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_639908-Cadillac-M24-Chaffee.html

Set name as "Cadillac M37 105mm HMC" and year as 1945. The M37 wasn't produced in 1944 https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/usa/105-mm-howitzer-motor-carriage-m37/
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?make=Cadillac&model=M37+Howitzer+Motor+Carria- ge&

Massey-Harris M41 155mm HMC (not Cadillac)
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_861169-Cadillac-M41-Howitzer-Motor-Carriage.html
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_1346828-Massey-Harris-M41.html

Cadillac M41 Walker Bulldog (not M24)
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_1827827-Cadillac-M24-Chaffee.html
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_245749-Cadillac-M24-Chaffee-1944.html
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_603084-Cadillac-M24-Chaffee-1944.html

Chrysler M47 Patton (not M24)
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_247873-Cadillac-M24-Chaffee-1944.html
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_620140-Cadillac-M24-Chaffee-1944.html

Name update: Cadillac M41 Walker Bulldog as T34 Calliope
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_678661-Cadillac-M41--Walker-Bulldog-.html

These two M41s are listed as being from 1962, but that was only the year they were delivered to the Danish Army. The M41 ended production in 1954.
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_58213-Cadillac-M41--Walker-Bulldog--1962.html
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_248682-Cadillac-M41--Walker-Bulldog--1962.html
There's no real way to tell production year for most tanks. They're not like cars of course where they change every year. For the M41, early production models had a different weld pattern on the turret, but it's not like that corresponds to 1951 and the later weld pattern to 1952. There are some tanks which had constant production changes, like the Sherman and the Panther, where if you have enough pictures of the same tank you can work out what month, year, and factory it was produced, but for most tanks that isn't the case. Early M41s were retrofitted constantly with new features as they came out, so they have the features of later production tanks. In all my time of photographing real tanks I've only found one original M41 which wasn't updated to a later model.

This is more of a comment, or some info so you can decide on. The full designation of this vehicle was M8 75mm HMC, and the nickname was Scott. Just "M8 Scott" is fine, or you can add the full designation, Cadillac M8 75mm HMC Scott. There are other vehicles like this (Hellcat and Jackson) so you should decide which way to name them.
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?make=Cadillac&model=M8+27&

Manufacturer should be American LaFrance. The T3E2 and T3E3 were meant to be improved versions of the Christie T3, but were assigned to American LaFrance because the Army was fed up with dealing with Christie.
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_1068784-Christie-T3E2-1936.html

Should be called "Chevrolet C15A CMP" like the rest.
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_1737568-Chevrolet-C15.html

Should have "CMP" as part of the model rather than as additional info.
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_1407584-Chevrolet-C30.html

All of the ones called "Chevrolet C60 L" (with the exception of this one specifically: https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_431173-Chevrolet-C60-L.html) should be called "Chevrolet C60 L CMP" like the rest.
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?make=Chevrolet&model=C60+L&
Also this one which is in its own category by mistake
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_1735237-Chevrolet-C60L.html

Should be called "Chevrolet C60 S CMP" like the other two.
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_101387-Chevrolet-C60-S.html

All of these should have the dash removed from their name. M1008, M1009, M1010, M1028, and M1031.
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?make=Chevrolet&model=CUCV+M-1008&
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?make=Chevrolet&model=CUCV+M-1009&
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?make=Chevrolet&model=CUCV+M-1010&
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?make=Chevrolet&model=CUCV+M-1028&
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?make=Chevrolet&model=CUCV+M-1031&

Chevrolet CUCV M1031
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_173331-Chevrolet-CUCV-1984.html

Set name to Chevrolet M6 Bomb Service Truck
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_727785-Chevrolet-M6.html

Chevrolet T17E1 Staghound as AEC Armoured Car
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_603165-Chevrolet-T17E1--Staghound--1942.html

Tank and "Made for Movie" corrections

Published 19/10/2024 @ 17:17:47, By Harold B

Latest Edition: 24/10/2024 @ 03:07:34

Tank and "Made for Movie" corrections

Published 19/10/2024 @ 19:35:22, By Harold B

Latest Edition: 24/10/2024 @ 03:11:52

Tank and "Made for Movie" corrections

Published 23/10/2024 @ 12:13:40, By antp

The "[Type 37]" in brackets doesn't need to be there. I don't even know what that would be referring to, originally a typo maybe if someone meant Type 97.
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?make=Isuzu&model=Type+97&

I forgot to clean it from their previous name, which was Isuzu TX 40 [Type 37]

One thing, this isn't a correction, more an opinion: I think it would be worth getting rid of the quote marks around the names for American tanks. " M4 'Sherman' " to " M4 Sherman " and so on. I mean they were official names, on the manuals even, and the equivalent nicknames for German tanks, like the Tiger and Panther, aren't in quotes. If you search " M1 Abrams " on the site search function it doesn't show up, you have to enter it as " M1 'Abrams' " for the site to display results, and most people won't know to do that. It's not too big of a deal, but if it's something you want to change maybe now is the time to do it.

Indeed quotes indicate nicknames / non-official names, these are known by that but were those names given by the company originally, along with the letter-number model codes?
If it has to be changed, it is possible of course. You can maybe post it in the mass-update thread, so we can see if someone reacts on it.

All American military "M", "T", and "XM" numbers don't have a dash or space. So "M4" is correct, "M-4" is not. There's also no space between "A" and "E" numbers, which denote specific versions, but I assume they are spaced on the site because of the way the categories work? "M4" and "M4A1" would be separate entries, but having it as "M4 A1" allows it to show up under "M4", correct?

Indeed, that's more for a practical reason on the site. Maybe it is something that should be changed some day though, but it concerns many other vehicles.
Maybe better to wait for when I'll improve handling of makes & models, but I don't know in how many years I'll have time for that :grin:

For the AM General where the dash could be removed, there is another problem with changing all of these, is that it creates a lot of dead links.
Maybe I'll also keep these changes for later, if I come up with an idea (it would probably be better to include that with the future better handling of makes & models).

I made a quick ID guide for major features of each version (beyond the obvious, you have to be at least familiar with the Sherman for this to be useful) https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hV_v8YAG12bgr2bc0WCs6GasfMUxoN680BbC0QT-8xg/edit?usp=sharing
When there are multiple manufacturers for a version, the one that built the most tanks is in bold. So Alco is the default for base model M4s and Fisher is the default for M4A2s.

That's useful info, I'm not sure where to put that so we can easily find it when needed.
Maybe a thread in the "Useful info and links for identification" is the right place, but that forum category is such an unorganized mess that it would quickly be lost there :ohwell:

About the Alco list,
- should 'Priest' go in model name or in italics in extra info? (mostly like current)
- same question for the "105mm HMC": is it part of the model name or just additional info?

I'll continue with page 2 later.

Latest Edition: 23/10/2024 @ 12:21:46

Tank and "Made for Movie" corrections

Published 23/10/2024 @ 12:30:37, By Harold B

The T and M numbers were assigned by the Army. The General names are kind of difficult to say exactly where they came from. Stuart, Lee, Grant, and Sherman were all suggested by the British (because they operated those tanks as well) and adopted officially by the US Army. It's worth noting that the British would write just "Sherman", while to the Americans it was officially "General Sherman", but no one ever followed that, they just called it the Sherman. Jackson, Pershing, and Chaffee were suggested by the British as well, even though they didn't operate those vehicles. The post-war tanks (Patton, Sheridan, Bradley, Buford, Abrams) would have to have originated with the US Army.

About the Alco list,
- should 'Priest' go in model name or in italics in extra info? (mostly like current)
- same question for the "105mm HMC": is it part of the model name or just additional info?

105mm HMC is part of the official name yes, that goes for all Gun Motor Carriage (GMC), Howitzer Motor Carriage (HMC), and Multiple Gun Motor Carriage (MGMC). Priest was an unofficial nickname, so I would put it in quotes.

Do you have an ability to leave a redirect? When vehicles have been renamed sometimes it redirects me to the new location, sometimes it doesn't.

Latest Edition: 24/10/2024 @ 01:21:17

Tank and "Made for Movie" corrections

Published 23/10/2024 @ 13:41:54, By antp

For makes I can, but as I said for having this for models I should wait until I make some upgrades on the site, which are planned but it will take some time.

Tank and "Made for Movie" corrections

Published 24/10/2024 @ 00:53:40, By Harold B

I made a post in the mass update thread about the General Names like you said.

Made for Movie Tank (generic)
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_687673-Made-for-Movie-Churchill.html
...

Also just a reminder you never finished with this post on the previous page, where you stopped at XM453E3 :smile:

Tank and "Made for Movie" corrections

Published 24/10/2024 @ 09:19:04, By antp

Thanks for the reminder, indeed I forgot it, with so many links :grin:

Tank and "Made for Movie" corrections

Published 04/11/2024 @ 13:13:04, By antp

The M24s which saw service with the Japanese military were not made for Japan. They were normal American army production vehicles which were given to Japan, therefore these two should not have the "made for Japan" tag. If that is only there to signify they are in Japanese service, then it is missing on many other M24s which clearly have Japanese markings.
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_837444-Cadillac-M24-Chaffee-1944.html
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_639908-Cadillac-M24-Chaffee.html

Indeed in some cases, the "made for" tag is used to identify special version of vehicles even if not really "made" for that market.
I guess that was the intend here, so it could be used for other M24 in Japanese service.

Next ones still to be processed:
https://imcdb.opencommunity.be/forum_topic-9849-90286-Tank_and_Made_for_Movie_corrections.html#p90286

Latest Edition: 04/11/2024 @ 13:44:24

Tank and "Made for Movie" corrections

Published 04/11/2024 @ 23:02:48, By Harold B

Latest Edition: 09/11/2024 @ 21:06:21

Tank and "Made for Movie" corrections

Published 05/11/2024 @ 14:07:35, By antp

but the forum wouldn't let me edit it, probably because it's too old

Indeed, I think posts can't be modified after some time on the forum.

"Pressed Steel" as a manufacturer should be "Pressed Steel Car". Pressed Steel Car Company was the company that made M4A1 Shermans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressed_Steel_Car_Company Pressed Steel Company was an unrelated British company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressed_Steel_Company

In a way it sounds strange to have the "Car" part without the "Company", maybe the name "Pressed Steel" was used as a shorter name, as there is no really "make" name for these tanks?
Otherwise I can change it and redirect the old name to the new one, like for the "s" added to Vickers Armstrongs.

Tank and "Made for Movie" corrections

Published 05/11/2024 @ 14:40:01, By antp

For the "Made for Movie" tanks, often we were not including the make in the model like what was done for other kinds of vehicles, because for real ones that make was added just because we needed one, as the tanks did not really had a make.

Tank and "Made for Movie" corrections

Published 07/11/2024 @ 18:21:38, By Harold B

Were you still working on the list of Shermans? I noticed you updated a lot of them but also missed a lot, so you may have been looking at the wrong post and not the updated one.

Tank and "Made for Movie" corrections

Published 09/11/2024 @ 12:57:56, By antp

Possible that by going back and forth at some moment I took a part of the first post instead of the second? Or I may have missed one or two blocks, I'll check.
Haven't you added some after I processed them? (last edit is 06/11 but I processed all that on 05/11)

Latest Edition: 09/11/2024 @ 13:00:33

Tank and "Made for Movie" corrections

Published 09/11/2024 @ 13:15:52, By antp

For https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?make=Pressed+Steel&model=M51+%27Super+Sherman- %27&modelMatch=1&modelInclModel=on is it M-50 or M-51 then?

Tank and "Made for Movie" corrections

Published 09/11/2024 @ 21:19:28, By Harold B

For https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?make=Pressed+Steel&model=M51+%27Super+Sherman- %27&modelMatch=1&modelInclModel=on is it M-50 or M-51 then?

M-51. Sorry, it's kinda hard to keep everything straight when you're thinking about so many things at once. The M-50 is a related version, but all of those are M-51s.

Yes I did make a few corrections and additions after you started on it, mostly because Mike pointed out I made a mistake with a couple of the A2/A3s. I'll check everything again later to make sure nothing got missed.

I'm just glad it's done now though. Reorganizing the Shermans was probably the biggest task out of all the tanks. Now that there's no longer any glaringly obvious errors, I'll try asking a few people I know if they can further ID some of them. Like specifically, to see if there are any Grizzly's in among the normal M4A1s. The Grizzly was the Canadian-produced version. I don't know what to look for on those specifically, but else someone might.